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[Closed] Now Playing XLVI

General Discussions » Now Playing XLVI (Posts 2131 to 2160 of 6016)

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  1. Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Just because he doesn't like the score doesn't mean he doesn't "get" the composer, whatever that means.

    True, but he's written equally ridiculous reviews about Shawshank Redemption and WALL-E, among others.
  2. Well, yes, we all have composers that we love more than others. I personally think Clemmensen (and, well, most reviewers, but him especially) tends to be too hard on John Powell. But once again...it's all a matter of opinion and just because he's less enthusiastic towards him doesn't mean he doesn't "get" him. What does "getting" a composer even mean?
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2014
    Who else is hard on Powell? I would say that most actually like him, his style and music.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  4. To me, it means being open to and appreciating a certain composer's approach to scoring. I don't think Clemmensen is open to Newman at all, especially when it comes to his more electronic scores.
  5. As I said, understanding the composer's thinking about the role of music in film. It's clear that for example Thomas Newman understands the films he is scoring differently than, say, John Williams or John Ottman (Jack the Giant Slayer comes to mind).

    Clemmensen isn't composer-specific, I would say he's methodology-specific. It's obvious that for him something like the Bourne trilogy doesn't fit the mold he loves, so he'll be negative about it, just because he disagrees with the way Powell approached the movie. I don't think he gives certain scores due dilligence in terms of interpreting them (ironically, Hans' most traditional score got a "hit" here with Pirates 3) as in what they are supposed to do.

    Disagreeing with the way a certain score is written and supposed to fit the picture is fine and dandy (even if other one-star reviews of Man of Steel happen to discuss the inherent issues of the score better than Clemmensen). Disregarding an approach whatsoever just because it's not as traditional as I would like it to be... is to me wrong and unfair.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  6. Erik Woods wrote
    Who else is hard on Powell? I would say that most actually like him, his style and music.

    Oh, they do...just not quite as much as me. biggrin
  7. I see what you mean, Pawel, and yeah, I kind of understand. In that sense yes, he can be quite conservative - being too hard on composers who don't follow the sound/themes of a franchise, for example. Or sometimes even genre...IMO he got waaaaay too hung up on the Pirates of the Caribbean scores not sounding like Korngold and Debney and therefore completely closed his ears to the progress Hans (and co) made in the second and especially third scores. I probably find that just as frustrating as Kevin does the Newman reviews.

    Then again, as with all reviewers, it's hard to really criticize him for feeling that way. It's legitimately what he thinks about the music, and it's an understandable viewpoint, even if you don't share it. And once you read enough of his reviews, you know that about him and can kind of look past that filter in order to see what the music actually sounds like and whether you'd like it or not.
  8. Having a certain vision of the genre is one thing. Though making glaring errors in interpretation of a score because it doesn't adhere to the way he thinks it should have been scored is another. This is why, long, argumentative an witty texts aside, I can't fully respect him as a reviewer, because I question his sense of due dilligence.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  9. PawelStroinski wrote
    errors in interpretation

    I'm still not entirely clear on what you mean by this. Surely how you interpret something can't really be "wrong" or "right"? I mean, obviously saying that there are steel drums in Man of Steel or that there aren't pan pipes in a score that clearly features them is factually incorrect, but this sounds like something different. Can you give an example? One that isn't Blade Runner, because I haven't heard that score...
  10. First Goldsmith, now Vangelis ... Edmund, there is some history homework waiting for you! wink

    Can you hear the pan pipes? If not it does't matter if they are credited or not. For Zimmer the orchestral recordings are often not much more than a guideline on the way to his own synthetic sound. A lot of orchestral detail gets lost on the way.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  11. Goldsmith is more important than Vangelis, I'd say... tongue
  12. In Clear and Present Danger the pan pipes are actually qute prominent in the underscore.

    Patriot Games:

    (on Jack Ryan theme): Ryan has no substantial theme devoted to him and no sensitivity built for his family. The former is somewhat addressed by a whiny, descending string motif of disillusionment heard throughout the score and serving as the underlying basis of "Electronic Battlefield" (this is the only motif that would carry over to the following score).

    It is true that Ryan himself doesn't have a substantial theme, but more, Ryan doesn't have a theme at all...

    I know that Clemmensen possibly went here with the misattribution made in the liner notes, but the "whiny, descending string motif of disillusionment" (as proven stronger by the sequel, even) is not for Jack Ryan, it's a CIA theme. If he followed the movie close enough, he would notice that this cue (also repeated during Ryan's research in the film) first appears when Langley appears for the first time and later is connected to the film's research scenes. So it's more of a CIA theme than a theme for Ryan.

    The thematic core of Patriot Games is family and that's what the movie is about. Also, I don't know of Horner's awareness of the source material for the film... the irony here is tinkered with in the novel, but some of the Irish material may be as well for Ryan (Jack Returns to CIA, for example), as it is for Miller and the IRA. Why? The film never explores it, but Jack Ryan actually does have Irish roots (he's an Irish Catholic, to be precise).

    So maybe the main title cue blasting the song and going to a pennywhistle motif underlined by nervous string ostinati over a flyover leading to Ryan's house (a shot symbolic for the thematic core of the film, as a home is a good metaphor for family) is both referencing the Irish terror that will happen, but also Ryan's values as a family man? I guess that didn't cross Christian's mind.

    And another thing:

    it would seem on the surface that either Horner was horribly misdirected in his attempt to get into the minds of the characters or he simply did not have the time or interest in conjuring a superior score for the project.

    Horner actually took a psychological approach to the score, in one particular scene quite radically. The Hit, as a cue, is not about hitting synchronization points (which Horner can do when asked for, as proven by Apollo 13, incidentally, a score understood very well by Christian), but about building up paranoia, when, along wth Ryan, we slowly realize what Miller's plan really is and what it leads to. It's very much written from Ryan's (and it is very helpful in imposing it on the audience!) perspective. It's a great piece of atmospheric, psychological scoring.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  13. Generally speaking (there are exceptions) I'd say Clemmensen doesn't write reviews with the film so closely in mind, so it makes sense that analysis like yours would pass him by. I'd say that most film score reviews don't go into that kind of depth, since it seems to me like the purpose of a film score review is more about whether the album is recommended or not than how the music works in the movie. That's certainly the approach I take and it seems like pretty much all of the film score sites I visit follow it as well. The kind of detail you go into is better suited for a dissertation. Not to say it isn't very interesting, of course. smile

    Misattributing a motif is, of course, a mistake - but if the score alone doesn't make it very clear, and the liner notes make the same mistake, then I don't think it's a "glaring error in interpretation". How many reviews have I read that mistake John Williams' theme for the Philosopher's Stone for a Voldemort theme? Well, not that many...but you see what I mean. We can't expect reviewers to always be intimately familiar with the film/story the score is accompanying.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2014
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Generally speaking (there are exceptions) I'd say Clemmensen doesn't write reviews with the film so closely in mind, so it makes sense that analysis like yours would pass him by.


    Yet there is a star rating for as heard in film. dizzy

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2014
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Goldsmith is more important than Vangelis, I'd say... tongue


    Slowly slowly catch a monkey as they say. Plenty of time to getting around to Vangelis, and Bladerunner is, IMO, one of the greatest film scores ever.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2014
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Goldsmith is more important than Vangelis, I'd say... tongue


    Oh no, wait till Thor reads this. What have you done!?
    http://www.movie-wave.net | http://facebook.com/moviewave
  17. Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Generally speaking (there are exceptions) I'd say Clemmensen doesn't write reviews with the film so closely in mind, so it makes sense that analysis like yours would pass him by.


    Yet there is a star rating for as heard in film. dizzy

    -Erik-


    I love his "As Written for the Film" star rating, that means: "I haven't seen the movie, but this is how I imagine the story should be scored anyway".
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  18. Yeah, I've always found that to be a bit of a...dodgy category. Just admit you're reviewing the album and have done with it!
  19. His The Thin Red Line article is ridden with factual errors as well, but picking on that while being in a privileged position would be just cruel.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  20. Review*
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2014 edited
    Southall wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Goldsmith is more important than Vangelis, I'd say... tongue


    Oh no, wait till Thor reads this. What have you done!?


    He, he...well, I think it's difficult to rate 'importance' this way. I think both of them broke new ground and were highly influential in different ways, and both deserve a place among the true masters of the art and craft that is film music.
    I am extremely serious.
  22. While it seems obvious, I think that Goldsmith's influence on the technology of film scoring is quite underrated today smile
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2014
    Depends on what you mean with 'technology'. I think he was absolutely clueless in terms of using electronics in his music 99% of the time. But it was no faulting his ENTHUSIASM for it, especially in the 80s.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2014
    ^ Couldn't disagree with you more. Sometimes the electronics wouldn't work but I don't think he was clueless. He was actually ahead of the game.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  25. Very much ahead of his game and actually, while his sounds dated and he didn't develop them much since Total Recall (if at all), his merging of electronics and orchestra was impeccable.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2014
    ^
    Absolutely. I have issues with some of his use of electronics through the years but what Thor said is utter rubbish.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2014
    Hate Goldsmith's synth farts, whilst he was an incredibly symphonic composer.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2014
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Brian Tyler - Battle: Los Angeles

    I don't yet know what to make out of this one. The theme is a pure anthem, but one of Tyler's better ones. I don't really react to the temptrackitis well, especially that it seems that for Tyler it's an attempt to take his action sound into a more atmospheric vein. But I like it!


    Love it, kick ass and grand.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2014 edited
    Demetris wrote
    Hate Goldsmith's synth farts, whilst he was an incredibly symphonic composer.


    Exactly. Although it wasn't only the 'synth farts', it was a) his inability to incorporate said electronics in an organic sense with the orchestra and b) using the electronic timbres on its own premises.

    Like Maurice Jarre, he was clearly fascinated by the technology, but VERY rarely made it work. He didn't quite UNDERSTAND it, IMO, at least that's the way it came off in the music.

    There are a couple of examples where they have a kind of 'fun' cheese quality (like the GREMLINS theme) or where they're not THAT jarring, but mostly I find that particular aspect of his music quite irritating.
    I am extremely serious.
  30. Thor wrote
    I don't know what you guys are smoking. It's a fine film with a fine score. I've never read the book, though, nor do I have any desire to. I've never been one to read a book just because it's popular.


    Sorry, can't resist. So your approach to books is quite different to your approach to films and soundtracks then?
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am

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