Good movies spoiled by (very) bad film scores (and the battle of the sexes)

Ahh, now that is all too true. I also believe they can achieve peaks of beauty undreamed of for a man, and it also helps that society has made available all these countless tools and products to assist them in that endeavour, now all of which can be used by men. But most importantly I agree that just because they can achieve those peaks doesn't mean they have to. I'm personally a very big fan of minimalism and cleanliness. Letting hygiene and demeanour speak for itself.

But if anything, I think this point should reinforce the metrosexual position. Should validate their efforts all the more. Since a woman can achieve far greater beauty than a man, it means they have to work extra hard to try to measure up. Is that what annoys you? The futility of trying to emulate a gender they're not? I could see how that could be perceived as such, actually... I don't see it that way but I can see how it could be seen like that.

Actually, I don't find ANY of this "annoying". It's just the way it is.

Just relax, dress up for a night on the town (or perhaps even for work) and take it from there. Or don't - just let everything grow, throw yourself on the couch and watch a good movie.

300 was ruined from the beginning

I agree with that too; but for clarifications, see above.

It's not about untruths, or even facts at all, Stavi!
But it is about points of view.
It's interesting to see how, as Bregje already observed, culture indeed seems to have a huge influence in the arguments presented.

See, I do not think that women are by definition more beautiful or more goodlooking then men. Thus my baseline is different as my argument departs from a complete equality: "If you take care of yourelf, you'll look good" (as Steven quite rightly pointed out before).
Obviously from that particular point of view, the argument that women need to work harder at standing out than men implies a double standard.
I'll explain this in a bit.

However, when the underlying thought is that all women are by definition more beautiful than men anyway (which incidentally I honestly do not agree with) and so need harder to "defeat the competition" (so to speak), then the baseline is a completely different one, as it's far more geared towards comparison between women than comparison between the sexes. And of course in that case there is NO double standard.

So is there anything wromg with men wanting to look and feel masculine ('hot') and women wanting to look and feel feminine ('hot').
Of COURSE not! How could it be?
Even when 'hot' constitutes something completely different, like in Thor's interesting aside, the 'metrosexual', it's all a matter of personal choice (influenced by current or cultural trends).

Where I draw the line is where one group tries and set the norm, and holds other people to that standard. Case in point: the way high fashion advocates the lollipop-head look ((c) Timmer, all rights reserved), and women honestly think they should adhere to that (while it's perfectly fine for men to just buy a proper suit and be done).
THAT's a double standard.
The same for men who ask their women to always look sexy, hot and ready (with aminimum of 60 minutes preparation time), while they think they can get away with a quick shave every other day.
THAT's a double standard.

Sadly it happens everywhere. As much as I'd like to argue that equality is the norm here, and that the (excellent) dictum of "take care of yourself, and you'll look good" is practised by everyone, around me I find that women, while not considered more beautful by definition than men, certainly are judged differently than men, and so the onus on women to look as good as they can IS greater. It's a reality that saddens me, as it implies pressure rather than choice.



It's not about being negative or shooting someone down, Stavi.
It's about understanding a point of view. My words were in no way meant to imply that you'd put such superficial considerations first.
I'm truly sorry if I phrased it in such a way that it might have seemed hurtful, and I perfectly understand if you feel that way.

I tend to argue quite rationally, even in issues as these which I feel very passionately about, especially issues I feel a certain urgency about (and honestly: the way women are viewed and treated even within some occidental countries and cultures make me yearn for another suffragette movement ).
My aim at the end is to understand, and -if applicable- to convince.

No argument has ever been won by hurting people.

At the end of the day, looks ARE important. And we all have our personal likes and dislikes.
That's fine. In all honesty I couldn't see myself being attracted to a 280 pound woman. Or a woman in stinky clothes. Looks are your calling card. It's the very first thing people see and react to.
So of COURSE it's important to take care of yourself (and that's not even counting the argument that you'll feel better when you take care iof yourself, already mentioned by Bregje).

But eventually I care about a person's opinion, a person's smile and sense of humour.
Their likes and dislikes and their intelligence.
That's what makes me love and appreciate them.
And as much as I'd enjoy doffing up, looking your best for a night on the town, if she doesn't want to wear make-up or not shave her arm pits every day, then that's absolutely fine with me.



Nice try, Tom.

Guilty as charged

But absolutely appropriate!

And I'm sad to hear about the divorces...

You know, I think it has a lot to do with high expectations of relationships, of eachother and high expectations of life in general, people looking for continuous happiness and things like that. Daily life is much different and a relationship needs care too (like our body hhe).

But perhaps it's easy for me to say. And who knows where to draw the line between choosing for a life together or for a life on your own... I can't judge for other people.

I have never combed my hair. Perhaps that's my problem!

I didn't up till 10th grade either, and only started after my Maths teacher grabbed a fistful of it and warned me I'd better start doing it

Therapy for what?

Oh God, I wouldn't think of that, not only would he've beat the crap out of me but I'd almost certainly be expelled. The latter is not so bad, but that guy was a big 6'5'' tall 90 kg bull and I remember one day when one of my classmates was doing march past improperly, he hurled the poor guy to the ground and beat him till his mouth was bleeding!

But compared to all the sh*t (sorry, had to use the word ) from verbally violent female teachers (one of whom was kind enough to call me a burden of the Earth for not wanting to partcipate in her wonderous skit), this was very less I regret not giving them a taste of their own medicine right then and there and walking out of the school with a transfer certificate!

More importantly, licking the teacher's boots in order to get yourself top marks

In the last couple of years in school I only had problems with my English Literature teacher, she had one of the worst attitudes I've seen in my life (unnecessarily commenting on everyone's personal life etc). Otherwise I got on fairly well with all other teachers, even my chemistry teacher who was pretty strict We actually had more problems with lower grade teachers who would take up the cane for the smallest offense

talk about off topic again, yikes