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JERRY GOLDSMITH
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- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
fommes wrote
Southall wrote
There is one Goldsmith score where my enjoyment has always been somewhat tainted because of the use of synths, and that's Lionheart. There are places where he uses a synth trumpet instead of a real one. Why!? It's possible the orchestral performance was dreadful (well, it IS pretty bad) and he got so frustrated he just gave up and used a keyboard instead, but that's the only reason I can think of for their inclusion in that score.
I haven't heard Lionheart, but didn't he do that in Timeline, too? Isn't that like a kind of synth horn or so?
It is, but I thought he was trying to deliberately go for a different sound there rather than trying to replicate an acoustic sound with an electronic one (as in Lionheart). I've never really had a problem with the synths in Timeline - after the initial slightly jarring sound, they seem to blend in rather nicely. But I know there are lots of people who don't like them. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
I do like the synths in Goldsmith's final works.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentAuthorBregt
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009 edited
I agree with Thor, fommes and the others. I cringe as well.Kazoo -
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009 edited
How Demetris said, We have to think the time when Goldsmith composed this scores. So, that's why mostly they are dated....A lot of them was in the 70's , if even Zimmer 90's scores already sounds dated!!
I really admire Goldsmith because He opened his mind and tried to compose new textures with this new "instruments". How Zimmer said, compose for synthetiser is really hard because you have to search the correct sound and start the notes from the very begining.
Anyway, being said that, a lot of his scores almost are ruined for the synth work, specially in Rambo saga.
I think Goldsmith really got the right way to mix the synthetiser in the 90's with Total Recall, Basic Instinct and other scores... -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
Yeah but apart the time context thing, i also said that i don't consider him a particularly good synth composer. Give me orchestral Goldsmith anyday.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorThor
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009 edited
Nautilus wrote
How Demetris said, We have to think the time when Goldsmith composed this scores. So, that's why mostly they are dated....A lot of them was in the 70's , if even Zimmer 90's scores already sounds dated!!
Not to go all off-topic, but...
Zimmer's scores from that period sound anything BUT dated today, since the action scores of today are very much molded on the style he established then. BACKDRAFT - THE ROCK - PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN - TRANFORMERS 2....it's very much a sound that still stands; even 25 years later.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009 edited
Thor wrote
TRANFORMERS 2....it's very much a sound that still stands; even 25 years later.
I think transformers scores (even if the last one was dissapointing) next with The Island, is a new generation of electronic scores. I think they are really advanced and with a really great sound design.
Driving Miss daysi,Drop Zone or even the most "recent" Face Off are simply annoying synthetic scores to listen these days. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
Nautilus wrote
Thor wrote
TRANFORMERS 2....it's very much a sound that still stands; even 25 years later.
I think transformers scores (even if the last one was dissapointing) next with The Island, is a new generation of electronic scores. I think they are really advanced and with a really great sound design.
For which you will be complaining 10 years from now about how dated they sound.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
Erik Woods wrote
Nautilus wrote
Thor wrote
TRANFORMERS 2....it's very much a sound that still stands; even 25 years later.
I think transformers scores (even if the last one was dissapointing) next with The Island, is a new generation of electronic scores. I think they are really advanced and with a really great sound design.
For which you will be complaining 10 years from now about how dated they sound.
-Erik-
I noticed that you only answers my posts when you have something negative to say. I mean this one, instead the "legend " one. It's one of the examples...
Why you do that?
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- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
Nautilus wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Nautilus wrote
Thor wrote
TRANFORMERS 2....it's very much a sound that still stands; even 25 years later.
I think transformers scores (even if the last one was dissapointing) next with The Island, is a new generation of electronic scores. I think they are really advanced and with a really great sound design.
For which you will be complaining 10 years from now about how dated they sound.
-Erik-
I noticed that you only answers my posts when you have something negative to say. I mean this one, instead the "legend " one. It's one of the examples...
Why you do that?
Why respond to your Legend post in the Now Playing thread when what I had to say was already written above yours.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
Because of sympathetic reasons
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- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
Thor wrote
Nautilus wrote
How Demetris said, We have to think the time when Goldsmith composed this scores. So, that's why mostly they are dated....A lot of them was in the 70's , if even Zimmer 90's scores already sounds dated!!
Not to go all off-topic, but...
Zimmer's scores from that period sound anything BUT dated today, since the action scores of today are very much molded on the style he established then. BACKDRAFT - THE ROCK - PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN - TRANFORMERS 2....it's very much a sound that still stands; even 25 years later.
I think that style has really moved on, I have to say. Things like the Transformers and Iron Man scores are based much more on aspects of 1990s pop music than Backdraft or The Rock (which were based on aspects of 1980s pop music). As with most pop-based film scores, I find those old Zimmer action scores hugely dated now. (It's more down to the compositional technique than the technology in his case, though - he was clearly much more influenced by then-contemporary thinking than Goldsmith, where the dated sound comes from the technology - to my ears at least.) -
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009 edited
Southall wrote
I think that style has really moved on, I have to say. Things like the Transformers and Iron Man scores are based much more on aspects of 1990s pop music than Backdraft or The Rock (which were based on aspects of 1980s pop music). As with most pop-based film scores, I find those old Zimmer action scores hugely dated now. (It's more down to the compositional technique than the technology in his case, though - he was clearly much more influenced by then-contemporary thinking than Goldsmith, where the dated sound comes from the technology - to my ears at least.)
Good thought, James!
Anyway, Zimmer ryhtms still works for me. Probably because I love 80's and 90's pop music.
We have 2 examples of technology Vs Technique: Regarding Henry and Frost/nixon. The same rytms (technique) , but one with dated sampled instruments and the other one with real instrumentation and percusive elements.
Goldsmith also changed his technique in every decade he worked, and that's why makes some of his scores a little but more dated (if you allow me this word) than other composers as John Williams who used a more classical sense of rythms.
besedides,We have to separate 2 things: the synthetiser as a ryhtm or percusion (total recall, Black Rain) or the synthesier as a texture (legend, beyond rangoon). -
- CommentAuthorThor
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009 edited
Southall wrote
I think that style has really moved on, I have to say. Things like the Transformers and Iron Man scores are based much more on aspects of 1990s pop music than Backdraft or The Rock (which were based on aspects of 1980s pop music). As with most pop-based film scores, I find those old Zimmer action scores hugely dated now.
No, I don't think that's true at all. Zimmer's famous power anthem style is far closer to 70's prog rock than 80' pop. The style he revolutionized and established in the late 80's has pretty much stayed the same untill today, except a few "updated" elements in terms of technology used and certain beats here and there. Not that surprising, when you think of it, since he has "recruited" so many film composers into his own style himself.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorfranz_conrad
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
The only reason Zimmer's sound might not be dated relative to Goldsmith is that a derivative of Zimmer's technique is in most major films these days. His current popularity saves him from sounding dated, since it's the sound of now. No one is really doing what Goldsmith was doing in the 80s right now - certainly no one anyone cares about. He's bound to sound out of date. But, as I said before, I don't think this escapes the fallacy of punishing the historical figure for being out of kilter with the present.
For some reason, the electronic-orchestral blend is the thing that really seems to date. Revisit Horner's TITANIC theme some time. It sounds very 90s (ie. Enya, Clannad) in its integration of acoustic and synthetic colours, and will sound more like that with time. Purer electronic exercises like CRIMSON TIDE or the Artemyev scores or BLADE RUNNER seem to hold up a lot better than the middle ground, and I can't help but wonder if that's half the reason why Zimmer uses sampled instrumentation at times when a living breathing player would be an easy thing for him. It sounds more consistent down the track.A butterfly thinks therefore I am -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
Damn but you sure make good sense Michael
On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
"For some reason, the electronic-orchestral blend is the thing that really seems to date. Revisit Horner's TITANIC theme some time. It sounds very 90s (ie. Enya, Clannad)"
i.e. crapLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorThor
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009
franz_conrad wrote
The only reason Zimmer's sound might not be dated relative to Goldsmith is that a derivative of Zimmer's technique is in most major films these days. His current popularity saves him from sounding dated, since it's the sound of now. No one is really doing what Goldsmith was doing in the 80s right now - certainly no one anyone cares about. He's bound to sound out of date. But, as I said before, I don't think this escapes the fallacy of punishing the historical figure for being out of kilter with the present.
For some reason, the electronic-orchestral blend is the thing that really seems to date. Revisit Horner's TITANIC theme some time. It sounds very 90s (ie. Enya, Clannad) in its integration of acoustic and synthetic colours, and will sound more like that with time. Purer electronic exercises like CRIMSON TIDE or the Artemyev scores or BLADE RUNNER seem to hold up a lot better than the middle ground, and I can't help but wonder if that's half the reason why Zimmer uses sampled instrumentation at times when a living breathing player would be an easy thing for him. It sounds more consistent down the track.
Yes, very good points. I agree with that.
The whole Enya/Clannad thing was totally a thing of the early 90's (also with bands such as Deep Forest, Enigma, Secret Garden etc.). I call it "cewcumber" music, mostly because I associate it with housewives doing therapeutic yoga sessions with cewcumbers on their eyes. Well...I DO like some of the music myself, but it's definitely dated today.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009
Alternatively known as cucumbers. :smug: (Fitting description though, I SO see where you're coming from.) -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009
Ironically I hated all that Oirish shit that came up in the 90s, but have grown more fond of it now it's gone out of fashion. -
- CommentAuthorfranz_conrad
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009
Christodoulides wrote
"For some reason, the electronic-orchestral blend is the thing that really seems to date. Revisit Horner's TITANIC theme some time. It sounds very 90s (ie. Enya, Clannad)"
i.e. crap
I wasn't suggesting that. Just that it sounded like it was of its time.A butterfly thinks therefore I am -
- CommentAuthorsdtom
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009
Benny Goodman sounds very 30's There wasn't a lot of electronic material in the Horner Swing Kids score.listen to more classical music! -
- CommentAuthorplindboe
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009 edited
Thor wrote
The whole Enya/Clannad thing was totally a thing of the early 90's (also with bands such as Deep Forest, Enigma, Secret Garden etc.). I call it "cewcumber" music, mostly because I associate it with housewives doing therapeutic yoga sessions with cewcumbers on their eyes. Well...I DO like some of the music myself, but it's definitely dated today.
I worship Secret Garden. Have all their albums. I don't consider the music dated though. A few tracks do indeed sound Enyaish, but most of their stuff has a timeless quality to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB97k312nDw
Peter
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- CommentAuthorThor
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009 edited
plindboe wrote
Thor wrote
The whole Enya/Clannad thing was totally a thing of the early 90's (also with bands such as Deep Forest, Enigma, Secret Garden etc.). I call it "cewcumber" music, mostly because I associate it with housewives doing therapeutic yoga sessions with cewcumbers on their eyes. Well...I DO like some of the music myself, but it's definitely dated today.
I worship Secret Garden. Have all their albums. I don't consider the music dated though. A few tracks do indeed sound Enyaish, but most of their stuff has a timeless quality to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB97k312nDw
Peter
I know I should probably like it, due to the Norwegian connection and the Eurovision Song Contest win and all that, but it just becomes a little too "on-the-nose" for me. A little too much New Age/music therapy. I need a little more "grittiness". (<-- I know, this coming from the man who likes much of Andrew Lloyd Webber...)I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorsdtom
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009
Thor, the spelling is cucumber.listen to more classical music! -
- CommentAuthorThor
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009
I know, Tom. Steven corrected me above.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeAug 28th 2009
It's always worth pointing these things out twice.
Nice to find another Lloyd Webber liker. Given how incredibly successful his musicals are, it's surprisingly rare that you find anyone who will admit to liking anything he's ever done! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeSep 6th 2009
Here is a fascinating in-depth article by Karl Scott, co-producer of the original Intrada release of Night Crossing on the creation of that very CD.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorsdtom
- CommentTimeSep 6th 2009
Southall wrote
It's always worth pointing these things out twice.
Nice to find another Lloyd Webber liker. Given how incredibly successful his musicals are, it's surprisingly rare that you find anyone who will admit to liking anything he's ever done!
I was watching a college football game last night (Alabama vs. Virginia Tech) and the Alabama band played a very nice rendition of Phantom of the Opera. When you have a 100 piece brass section it comes through loud and clear.
Thomaslisten to more classical music! -
- CommentAuthorFalkirkBairn
- CommentTimeSep 7th 2009
Nautilus wrote
why he started reviews of Goldsmith 80's scores if he is rating with 2 stars almost every one of them!
Because if all we did was review the good stuff then what would be the point?
Just as listeners' opinions are varied so are reviewers' opinions.
Maybe I should start a blog or something and review the likes of Legend, Papillon, Under Fire, etc? Because I'm not sure I'd give them 5-stars combined.The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn