As Above, So Below - the religion thread (formerly: People of California, beware)

This one that Bregt posted on facebook I also found hilarious-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIIknwATn-U

The user has uploaded tons of these kinds of old-fashioned educational videos, all of them hilarious.

Peter

Like it!

Excellent!

Not really my type of humour, but Storm is rather good.

Peter

Glad you liked it. Yes, I think you should see it again because he didn't say that it was magic to say that life is a mystery, and she was the one who brought up psychics and auras in the first place.

Peter

You're right! I just watched it again and heard much more than the first time. I also really appreciate it from the language point of view, the rhyme and all that. It is really good!! I'm thinking of posting it on Facebook once I find the right way to introduce it.... "To hell with esotericism"? "Science vs. esotericism?". How would you introduce this little animation??


Is the word in English esotericism or rather spirituality? I'm always a bit confused...
And I'm also often a bit disappointed that the philosophy books are so close to the spirituality and esotericism books in the book store!


By the way, I like what she says about medication. Except that for me the alternative to medicine is no medicine. And not homeopathie!! I'm especially talking about anti-depressive medication and things like Ritalin...

Exactly! I believe it was Douglas Adams who said "isn't a garden beautiful enough without having to believe there are fairies living at the bottom of it too".

I watched it and if it is taken as humor it was a decent 10 minute clip. The drug issue makes little sense to me at all. He isn't a doctor so he shouldn't be talking about medication. In a way he is two faced because he is questioning anti-depressants but talking about a few glasses of wine which is no big deal. Well it is a big deal because it is a drug and a depressant. If your on anti-depressants like I am, because of my stroke, you need to avoid alcohol.
Tom

Good one too. Thanks for thinking with me. For me, I could say... that's not very critical, hmm...



That's very interesting to hear from you, I mean from personal experience!

You know I am a teacher and it worries me how many children are diagnosed. Perhaps they are diagnosed because they truly have ADHD, but still, many children suffer from the diagnose itself. They blame ADHD for everything and they lost confidence. They think they can't do this, can't do that 'because they have ADHD' and that worries me a bit. (the same goes for other diagnoses of course)

I like to follow the discussion about Ritalin a bit and I really don't know what to think. I know Ritalin use has multiplied by three in five years or something like that. The question is, does everyone who gets it need it? I have no idea. When does someone really need it? Some say: 'I use it and because of it I do better at school thankfully'. But then there are doctors who say 'everyone would do better at school if they would use it!' and I read some students use it when they have to do exams...

You say it's a safe medicine. I read that some doctors say it's much less safe and that it shouldn't be prescribed when it's not really neccessary. I really don't know what to think of it. A diagnose can help people, it can also make people less confident or worried for nothing or make them think that everyone has to be normal or average. Medication can help people, but like I say, do we want everyone to be the same. I hope not.

I really don't know what to believe. All I know is that every 'thing' that is not average (too quiet, too active, too smart, too clumsy, etc) is labelled these days and when you look into students files it's like looking at medical files. The question is always: what do they really need?

Bregje,

yes, I agree with much of what you say and you ask some very sensible and important questions. A diagnosis can easily end up becoming an easy excuse to some, and it's imporant to make ADHD'ers realize that it should never be used as an excuse, but rather an explanation. But getting a diagnosis can also help the ADHD'er and their friends and families to understand what's going on. People with ADHD easily end up with low self esteem because they end up feeling incompetent and socially inept, and getting a diagnosis can make you realize that you are not necessarily stupid, crazy or lazy, but there are specific reasons for why you've always been different. Speaking of myself, I hope people here realize that I do harbour some intelligence, but meet me in real life and you'll probably be surprised to find out that I have great difficulties even following a simple conversation. People talk to me and no matter how hard I try to concentrate I can't understand what they're say, because I only absorb about 50% of the words spoken and my brain tries frantically to figure out what people are talking about, so it's like trying to solve a big puzzle when I try to follow a conversation. I've developed several coping mechanisms during the course of my life for dealing with this (nodding and saying "yes" can get you very far ), so people today often don't suspect that I can't follow the conversation, so I'm just considered quiet and a good listener, because I speak very little and only short sentences. I hope you can see how one will end up feeling stupid and inferior after a lifetime of dealing with such an issue, and how a diagnosis can be a real relief. All this said, it's important to point out that concentration problems do vary, depending on who one talks to and how nervous one is; you might never be able to tell if a person has ADHD, while a real expert will be able to pick up several signs and see through the coping mechanisms

Concentration problems is just one symptom out of many btw. There's alot more to ADHD than most people know. When most people think of ADHD they think of unruly children. I was an easy child though, which is probably why I never got diagnosed as a child (hyperactivity is such a noticable symptom); it's essential to point out that hyperactivity does not equal ADHD. Like depression, ADHD consists of a long list of symptoms. When I first started taking ritalin I noticed a drastic change in countless ways. I made a list with more than 50 symptoms, that changed drastically from one day to the other. It was unfortunately too good to be true as the medicine slowly worked less and less, so I had to change medicine in the end to one with more consistant effects.

In any case, I still think I have a healthy dose of skepticism towards ADHD. For instance I think there are probably several different disorders under the same heading, and it will probably take a while for the experts to come up with some better divisions and diagnostic tools. I also suspect that there's a risk that people with other disorders could be misdiagnosed with ADHD, for instance various forms of depression can exhibit many of the same symptoms, and it gets even more confusing when you realize that many people with ADHD sooner or later end up with some form of depression due to their difficulties coping with life. So I do feel sympathy towards the poor doctors who have to sort out this stuff, confronted with demanding parents and a society that treats their diagnoses with hostility.

All this said, even though I believe it's a mess, it does concern me when people speak out against ADHD as if it's purely an invented disorder, and against the medicine as if its only purpose is to serve corporate greed. There's much more to the story than these one-sided prejudices, and a balanced and informed view with a healthy dose of skepticism is required... as it should be with any medication out there. And yes, ritalin has side-effects, which is why it should not be prescribed if it isn't needed. It for instance tends to increase one's heart beat, so if a person has heart problems, it's best to avoid. So even though it's a relatively safe medicine, it's not something to take lightly, and there must be a long and thorough examination before people are diagnosed and prescribed medicine.

Peter

Indeed, I've always liked that one.

I remember once being told by a ghost believer and fan of the paranormal that as a non-believer my world view must be awfully sterile and bleak. I asked her if puppies, rainbows and laughing babies didn't exist in her world. How can she look at these wonderful things and still think the Universe is a sterile and bleak place, simply because there aren't ghosts running around? Not surprisingly she never responded.

I almost hope these people keep onto their beliefs, because as non-believers these types of individuals must be awful downers.

Peter

I counted 7.

Anyway, the word "fuck" is here used as an intensifier, and in this particular beat poem illustrated the increasing anger and intoxicity of Tim Minchin.




Agreed. Nothing to do with the video though, as nothing in the video indicated that people should take antidepressants and drink at the same time.

Peter

Tom, you don't need to be a doctor in order to understand the difference between the definitions of medication and alternative medication. His point was against the Storm caricature's notion of knowledge and how we can never really be sure of anything. He wasn't professing an expertise in medicine, nor do you need to be a doctor to have a basic understanding of medication, but was simply pointing out the fraudulence of this oft-repeated garbage (i.e. there are degrees of certainty which can be called knowledge for all practical purposes).

What's wrong with swearing? It's well used in the context of the piece since it perfectly reflects the impatient and sometimes infuriating feeling sensible people have in face of the credulity and stupidity of others. I feel sorry for you if you're really that easily offended by swearing!

And where does it suggest that either character is on an antidepressant? What's the problem with any of them drinking wine?

Nobody's disagreeing with that! The animation isn't suggesting that either, which is why I'm confused as to why you're even bringing it up?

As for the swearing, fair enough. Though it's perfectly justified within the context of the animation and Tim Minchin's character's increasing infuriation and intoxication, as Peter has already pointed out. It adds to the sense that this character is becoming annoyed with the Storm character.