As Above, So Below - the religion thread (formerly: People of California, beware)

It's an animation based on a 'beat' poem by Australian comedian Tim Minchin and it deals with ignorance, common sense, epistemology and the beauty of reality as revealed by science without necessitating the need to believe in various supernatural practises and claims. Minchin places himself within the poem as the protagonist and uses the caricature 'Storm' as the antagonist to bring up fraudulent claims against science, in particular pharmaceutical companies, medication and the nature of knowledge, all of which are knocked down by Minchin's rebuttals and rants within the poem. It's comical in its approach, but has a very serious message within it.

For clarity's sake, it doesn't suggest or advocate taking alcohol and anti-depressants at the same time. The specific subject of anti-depressants is not brought up in the poem.
It does have people drinking wine though.

I hope that helps.

*

*minus the anti-depressants

Thank you very much for your extensive reply. I read it with much interest.
From professional and personal point of view.

I like hearing experiences like this, because it makes me realize there are still good things done with diagnoses and medication. Of course I know good things are done with it, but I am more often confronted with the not-so-good side of it, with children with a label that just makes me raise my eyebrow and wonder if there is really something 'wrong'. So it's nice to hear the stories where problems are actually solved or should I say: where lives are improved and people get fair chances in life.

A risk is also that I am not an expert so my judgement can easily be wrong. Like you say some symptoms are not very well known and coping mechanisms can hide the disorder too. And I'm just a teacher and not a doctor or a psychologist! (The lack of knowledge is another problem that some doctors who are against the amount of prescribed medication talk about: they say people who have some of the symptoms are too easily diagnosed (by real doctors!), while something else is going on. Needless to say, we all want that a diagnosis is right, and not confused with something else...)

Anyway, to be honest, the labels and diagnoses scare me off a bit and there are some worries about my son every now and then, and I keep waiting to do some tests, even now, I just keep postponing it because I'm afraid I will do more harm than good. But more and more people tell me 'well, just a test can't do much harm, can it?' And I guess that's true, although the tests itself send a message to the child already, without even knowing what the results will be. By the way, I'm not talking about ADHD, I am talking about his anger and frustration plus him being clever in certain fields. We are wondering if those things are linked some how. Like all moms I just want him to be happy so I'm thinking about what to do. But being a teacher, and seeing horrible parents who think their child is so special, causes sort of an aversion for all this, if you understand what I mean...

From a teacher's point of view there are some horrible parents you know: overprotective parents, parents who don't care enough, parents who think their child is more important than the rest, parents who are so afraid and insecure they infect their children with it, etc. So I'm really thinking what the best way is.



Thanks very much for your reply!

Well, I'm glad knowledge of psychological problems has improved a lot with doctors.

Just take hyperventilation / panic attacks: before if you would go to a doctor and say 'I have pain on my chest, and a tinkly feeling in my arm and I can't breathe!' he would call the ambulance. Now doctors have much more knowledge about the symptoms of stress and the symptoms of depression and for instance panic attacks, which are very scary but harmless.

It really differs how easy they will prescribe pills. Thankfully here usually you will be sent to a psychiatrist before you get medication for depression or things like that. But on the other hand it has become easier for a doctor to prescribe medication and I know it happens more often.

When I had stress symptoms I was glad the doctor said 'solve your problems at work' instead of 'here's a pill'

Anyone have any thoughts on Christmas and secularism?

I ask mostly because our local reverend has written a "Christmas letter" in a local newspaper with the usual Christian hokum about Christmas and its true meaning, and I'm rather tempted to write a "Secularist Christmas letter" in response to it.

While the year and date of birth of Christ is pretty elusive, because the Medieval scholar who described the date of birth of Christ badly counted the astronomical data, the true meaning of Christmas is Christ's Mass.

The religious meaning of Christmas is right in the name. It IS a religious holiday, because it has Christ in name. There is nothing secular behind the idea.

Also, I suppose we shouldn't confuse semantics. The true meaning of the word Christmas is indeed Christ's Mass (as far as I know), but the meaning of Christmas as a holiday can be all manner of things to all manner of people.

Same here.



Oh, yes!




That's rather typical. When Christians talk about Christianity they conveniently tend to forget all the bad things their religion has caused, and act like Christianity has brought nothing but purity and goodness.




Some people actually make that argument too. My own usual retort is that if it's hypocritical to celebrate Christmas as an atheist, then it's just as hypocritical to celebrate Christmas if you don't believe in Santa.

People don't seem to understand that we believe in Jesus just as little as we believe in Santa. It's all the same to us; cute, made up myths that have become part of a holiday I enjoy. That I don't believe in Jesus has as little importance for me on Christmas as not believing in Gandalf and still being able to enjoy the LOTR movies.

Peter

Steal away. And as long as you credit me as Peter the Magnificent, then I promise you there won't be any copyright infringement lawsuits.

Peter

Thursday was named after the Norse god Thor. You use the word "thursday" even though you don't believe in the god Thor. If you don't believe in the god Thor, stop calling it thursday.

Why do I have to make this point again?

Pawel, you're too smart not to get this simple concept: Different words have different meanings to different people.

Peter

I will not be lashing out, I will simply be offering a secularist's view of Christmas in response to this particular reverend's Christmas letter. This letter was sent out to non-church members, and implicitly states a 'true' form and meaning to Christmas with a Christian agenda. I don't mind that she preached about goodwill, but it irked me that she spent a good two paragraphs explaining what Christmas is really about without offering the reader to make up their own mind.



Christmas is what I've always known it as. As Peter has pointed out, the names of the week come from rather specific traditions, but that doesn't mean it's hypocritical to use the names without conforming to original beliefs of those traditions, or even recognising the traditions at all. I think it's rather silly and petty to avoid a particular word simply because you don't adhere to its origins.

I will continue to celebrate Christmas!

No, the reverend should be attacked because it is suggested that that is the ONLY (and even more arrogantly and worryingly) the only PROPER way to celebrate Christmas.
Which of course it isn't.
I won't reiterate the excellent points Peter made, but the mere fact that the Church adopted and ordained a thorougly pagan concept with all the trimmings, called it 'Christ's Mass' and we, through 1500 years of VERY thorough propaganda now have been drilled to call it that historically, by no means whatsoever makes that the true meaning.

If anything it just makes it a classic historic example of rebranding.

After making perfectly valid points about greed, goodwill, love, peace and caring for other less fortunate, she ends with this:

What is Christmas really all about?
It is about a world caught up in greed and selfishness and the miracle of a tiny baby born into that mess; about hope that there is a better way, that we can find the way of love and peace amongst people, that we can again learn the joy of giving; about standing on a starlit night and seeing the star that will lead us to that humble stable where the Christ child lies.
It is about knowing that there will never be anything as precious as the gift we were given that first Christmas night and knowing that on that first Christmas night time [an] eternity stood still and God himself came among us. And that really is cause for celebration.
Wishing you a very blessed and very peaceful Christmas! - [Rev.] Pauline Scott

Well that's exactly it. If she had included the words "To me..." or something similar at the start of her final paragraphs, that I suppose would be fine. But she didn't.

As well as the fact this was presented on the first page of a publication which inevitably includes non-church going readers, it does rather call out for a secularist rebuttal. (Which will be fair and calm. )

All about money Steven when it comes to the holiday part of it.
Tom