World events

Not sure why you'd ask in this thread, where no one has said they agree with the ruling. If you're really interested, I'm sure you can find the court ruling outlined somewhere though where the judge outlines his reasons in detail.

Peter

I'm now and then watching the Egypt protests on Al Jazeera, in between some work at home here, and it's odd and impressive at the same time. The deaths are sad, but also the non-support or condemnation of our/neighbour's governments. I guess they're too busy in Davos.

The news is always saying that things are "fast moving" in Egypt but it is always just people demonstrating. How is it fast moving?

Funny to see the UK and US distancing themselves from things, but supporting any internal resolution to the events. I bet they are hoping that no void that opens is filled by extremists.

I'm sure that behind closed doors the UK and US positions are a bit different.

It was interesting to hear earlier a financial markets view on things. They want stability and would prefer Mubarak to stay in power and the demonstrations to end so that the status quo is re-established.

Martijn, you can't call it all anarchism (at least not just before today), since so many Egyptians actually helped prevent such events. I also constantly hear the Moslin Brotherhood is keeping itself at a moderate distance, even though supporting the protests. Isn't Egypt less favourable to vote for such parties? (that is of course excluding a takeover similar to Iran). Or do I need to have lived longer to not believe this?

But just now, all hell breaks loose at Cairo. Sad to see that now police, some dressed as regular citizens, and pro-Mubarak, attack those same citizens, who apparently are not protected by the army. In the meantime, a Belgian journalist has been taken away by the police, has been hit and is held for espionage...

Anarchy is not the same as chaos, Bregt.
And I'm notreally surprised shit hit the fan now thattwo opposing, violent factions stand against each other.chances for peace are a bit better when everyone's one the same page....

And do not underestimate the deviousness of the Brotherhood: they are the only organised force and a driving factor for the riots. As soon as the dust settles, and it turns out there is no strong man to take control, they'lltake the opportunity.

Right now the best thing that can happen is a military coup... What a sad world...

Mubarak and his cronies certainly run a pretty dictatorial ship.
However, I remain unsuree about the amount of actual ill he's done. 'Just' being in power seems an odd reason to rebel, and relatively Egypt is far better off than its neigbours in the sense of economy, growth, tolerance and freedom. I'm sure I could be better informed, but so far it seems to that the primary reason for the massive demonstrations were mainly to do with the declining economy and the lack of proper jobs (welcome to 2011, I'd say, but never mind).
Mubarak is hardly on a level with Ghadaffi, Achmedinejad or Sadam Hussein as far as repression and war mongering goes.

I also grow -very- weary of all western journalists copying each other in metioning 'sources' that 'suggest' the pro-Mubaraks are 'all paid secret police'. Interesting none of these sources is ever mentioned by name, or taken before a micfophone. It's all people who either 'have heard' this or 'have no doubt in their mind' about it.

And to wreak havoc now, now he has already announced his resignation, makes no sense at all, politically, economically, socially or otherwise.

I sense a lot of agendas, a lot of hot-headedness (in the Middle East? Who coulda thunk?), and some massive fuck-ups (due to majorly wrong assumptions) on all sides.

But this doesn't even start to get close to a black and white situation.

Oh, they should have the right to protest, of course. And they should have the right to criticise their leaders. Nobody is denying the levels of corruption and poverty in Egypt, and people are very right to stand up and shout out against that!

What I find harder to understand is what they are protesting for.
What are the alternatives? What countries in their vicinity are they looking towards as future rolemodels? What happens when Mubarak is gone?

The second thing is they got what they wanted. Mubarak will be leaving.
I think the current confusion was best summed up by two Egyptian female professionals, who were bemused: "we got what we protested for. What is everyone still doing here? I just want to get back to work and to life."
(interesting how it's so often women who make the most sense).

Anyway, seems to me there is a lot of confused directions in this whole debacle.
Geopolitically Egypt has been pretty much a beacon of political stability and voice of reason in a wildly hot headed region. That's why the Egyptian government has always been a favourite of the rest of the world.now of course there is immense fear these riots will be used (or at worst have been fueled) by muslim extremists (sadly not a paranoid idea by any means. As said the thoroughly fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood is the only organised faction right now and will establish a second Iran inn a heartbeat...unless the army -the current true power in Egypt- steps in.)

That, to me, seems to be the crux of the government's overreaction: the fear of a fundamentalist coup (that's why you see the army being manipulated more and more to the side of the powers that be).
On the other hand the protesters seem to have no clear idea of direction any more of what they're doing or why. It's just 'anti-Mubarak' which is an incredibly dangerous, simplistic view that could easily be perverted into destruction and the establishment of a totalitarian regime that will make Mubarak seem positively saintly.

The most important question from an outside point of view is "who benefits by continued rioting and destabilisation (the primary demand, after all, has been met.)"

The most important question in Egypt is of course how to get some stability and peace back.
For one thing it'd help if the legions of rabid reporters likening this to the second French Revolution would fuck the hell off. The continued rabid dog news gathering isn't really helping things along (as I find it beyond cynical everyone has suddenly forgot about Tunesia. But them Egypt has far more and better exposure, and will yield many more editorials and prizes...)

http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/ … ptians.jpg

Yep!
Very interested to see what happens now.

Protests in Iran? Hm. The Green Revolution was met with incredible violence, suppression and retribution. My heart goes out to the people there. If they are determined to stand up once more to that vile, corrupt and evil regime, I respect them beyond measure.
I wish there was something more tangible I could do.

Indeed, situation there is absolutely desperate and illogical.

Interested to see what happens in Egypt now; something tells me that - like most of these cases, Mubarak wasn't their prime problem after all. Only time will tell.

Yesterday and today there were renewed protests in Iran. I was wondering, is there anything the outside world can do, because as far as I can see, there's not much leverage and the leaders don't give a fuck anyway. What a hopeless situation (not that it is the only one).

Also protests in Bahrain and continuing in Yemen. Activists of the former are threatening to protest on the opening of the F1 season next month... And in the mean time, Mubarak is dying. What a surreal situation!

To be honest, I don't really care.

I'm waiting for the fever of all this to get to Scotland and there to be protests in George Square and marches up the Royal Mile.

Yeah, I'm all for that!