[Closed] Recent Viewing Part III

Rarely has there been a soundtrack influenced more by Elfman than Goldsmith's THE SHADOW. That some people are not hearing this is unfathomable to me.

Yes, I noticed that too, funny that eh?

I have listened to a lot of Elfman in my time and have listened to The Shadow on several occasions too and can't hear anything which is even remotely Elfman-like in it. Rarely has there been a soundtrack influenced less by Elfman than Goldsmith's The Shadow, including those written before Elfman was born.

I always thought the theme sounded Elfman like. All dressed up in Jerryness of course.

I need to give it another listen because I've honestly never heard that. The theme is very heavily inspired by one in Franz Waxman's Prince Valiant (which doesn't of course preclude it from being Elfmanesque, but I don't hear it myself). I've always thought the score sounded like the usual Goldsmith blend of Bartok and Stravinsky with his unique odd-metered action style, the thing distinguishing it most from "standard" Goldsmith of the time being the elaborate percussion more than anything else.

SHOWGIRLS is appallingly BAD! ( though I've not seen SPETTERS )

You're right on the money there, James!



It is... but if you are doing a dark, comic book film after Burton's Batman then the music, no matter how different it sounds, must be heavily influenced by Elfman even though it doesn't sound one iota like it.

-Erik-

James Horner

Don't care diddly-squat about melody.

It's all in the STYLE here. The Elfman vibe struck me like a lightning bolt the very first time I heard the score; that's how obvious it was to me. In fact, that's why I bought it to begin with. It was cool to hear Jerry channel Danny.

It's actually closer in both style (and even melody) to Elfman's DICK TRACY, but the latter obviously also belongs in the post-BATMAN sound that both Elfman himself and countless other composers emulated -- including Goldsmith:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBOoWg60Rs

Never saw the whole film, to be honest I don't care much for Dutch film, but yeah, it's quite bad. It's the film that had Spielberg invoke his invitation to Verhoeven to come to Hollywood. In the Netherlands, it's a film that seems to have defined a generation, but I'll never 'get' it. It's also a film with no international appeal, as such.

Now, Showgirls is a different thing, to me. Mind you, I saw it when I expected to see The. Worst. Film. Of. All. Time., as many make it out to be, and I saw it in the same week as I saw Striptease. I expected that Demi Moore film to be simply a bad acted version of a mother struggling to raise her daughter and as such become an exotic dancer, but got a horrible, terrible mess of a film that tried to incorporate a thriller-plot, misjudged bad humour, etc.

Showgirls, on the other hand, is a lot better focused and basically should be seen in the same way you look at Starship Troopers (a film that is horribly misunderstood, by the way, as is Showgirls, to some extent). A disclaimer first; no, it certainly isn't a good film and it has many obvious flaws. But you should know how to watch it, and since I was mainly interested on WHY Verhoeven (a very intelligent man, mind you) wanted to make such a film, I was actively looking for that reason. Now, beneath the surface of exotic dancers trying to make it in the world of exotic dancing, I thought it to be a deeply cynical and unpleasant film with ruthless managers of clubs treating woman like dirt on stage, exploiting them, making them parade naked like animals, acting like they have no emotion and doing with them whatever they please. The (intended) bad acting enhances the feel that you're watching a satirical film in the way ST did too (Verhoeven cast Melrose Place-like actors for a reason), and it's exactly this what makes the film less difficult to watch. Sure, it also doesn't have much of a plot, but it's primarily a portrait of this shady underworld that horribly exploits girls who are simply trying to make some money, or otherwise will end up in trailer trash communities.

I think many didn't get that and got stuck at the surface, namely a film that showed a lot of topless girls, and started a controversy, after which you apparently weren't allowed to watch the film with an open mind anymore. Many will call Showgirls his worst film, but at least vilify it for the right reasons.

Timmer, I can't help but notice you've remained uncharacteristically reticent in your views on The Dark Knight Rises.

Didd you get to see it?

Once Upon a Time in the West

In terms of films, this is right up there. It always hovers around my "favourite film of all" position and inevitably, having just watched it, it's occupying that position at the moment. Everything about it is, or nearly is, perfect - including, of course, the score. The three minutes from Claudia Cardinale entering the train station, as Morricone's most beautiful theme is heard for the first time, is film music heaven, the finest marriage of music and film I've seen. Indeed, the 165 minutes of the film in its entirety is probably the finest marriage of music and film I've seen. Anyone who wants to be a film composer should watch this film and everybody alive who actually is a film composer could watch this film and learn a lot.

I remember noting that at the time he said it. Elsewhere, I believe Thor has noted that the score is Elfmanesque (it has instruments in and everything).

You're right. I look forward to Thor's report on Showgirls later.

Since people do it to me, it's only fair to do it to Roger Ebert - I noticed that he awarded Once Upon a Time in the West 2.5 stars; and The Shadow, 3 stars. So The Shadow is 20% better than Once Upon a Time in the West. I love star ratings.