[Closed] Now Playing XLVII

When it comes to the plotting out of specific leitmotivic attribution, few of the composers you listed have ever touched Shore in Middle-earth mode. Even the Star Wars scores can't boast the hundreds (!) of recurring motifs that Shore has created.

Now, I'm not saying that the only way to make a score "rich" is to give it a ton of themes, or that more themes automatically makes a score better (or that I prefer the Hobbit scores to the Star Wars ones - that's only true of the sequels ). And I actually agree with you to a point that occasionally Shore's music in the Hobbit scores especially could do with being a little more direct - perhaps there's something to that "over-thought" argument. But for goodness' sakes, give me an over-thought score over an under-thought one any day of the week.

Incidentally, a lot of what you're saying reflects how I feel about Desplat's The Golden Compass, a score that's very rich in motifs, but which I think is too cerebral for its own good and very much lacking in emotional punch. But I still have a ton of respect for that score. I think it's fantastically written and I wish there were more scores like it.

See, this is what I'm talking about. People are so dismissive of what Shore is doing with his motifs to the point of practically ignoring it.

Yes, I'm sure there's an argument to be made along the lines that if even film score fans aren't picking up on your thematic development, it might be a bit too subtle...but it's there. I can hear it. Why can't anyone else?? Am I going insane or something?!

What I like so much about Shore's approach is how he ties related motifs together. The Erebor, Thorin and House of Durin themes are all dwarf-related and are all therefore based around similar minor-third progressions and often flow into each other. The Bilbo themes from An Unexpected Journey (sadly unused in film and scrapped thereafter) are so impressive because of how perfectly they fit into the mold of the older hobbit/Shire themes while still being entirely fresh melodies. And then you've got those fantastic orchestrational choices like the gamelans for Smaug that give off a sinister, shimmery "golden" texture, or the "glowing" choral cluster for the Arkenstone. Yeah, okay, it's not some sort of subversive scoring-against-picture approach, but there's something about Shore's "literalness" that just gets to me.

oHyiissssss

There you go.

The odd thing is, there, I sort of agree with both sides. I don't like the doom-and-gloom "we want the old JNH back, he hasn't done anything good in years" attitude much either, and I think he's done some fantastic stuff over the last decade, but I'd throw out all the Hunger Games scores put together to get just one Waterworld or Atlantis out of him - and I doubt we ever will.

Apollo 13 - James Horner

This is an incredible piece of work, one of his best.

Sorry, but so are some of the things that have been said about people who go to the trouble to analyze the themes in the Hobbit scores. The mocking of the jwfan motif chart, for example, gives exactly the impression that people want their themes spoon-fed to them rather than having to actually listen to the entire score analytically to learn and find them.

Maleficant?

Indeed.

Crikey.

I know it can be painful to hear a lot of negative comments about a score you personally care for, Edmund and Scribe. Believe me, I have my own examples in that category. But when something doesn't connect with you, it simply doesn't. To me, none of the HOBBIT films and scores have been particularly inspired (although I did like the first film, in particular, but that was mostly to do with the format experience in 3D HFR). If you asked Jackson or Shore about the degree of inspiration, they would probably answer in the affirmative, but I have my doubts, to be honest -- for a variety of reasons.

At some point, I might sit down and try to make a playlist of about, say, 50-60 minutes of ALL the HOBBIT scores combined, because that's about the amount of good material I think there is.

Tons of effort, time, sweat, blood and tears is given to writing each and every score ever written... the good and bad. I'm sure Shore put quite a bit of time and effort into writing his Hobbit scores... I just don't like them.

The majority of the themes written for the series (not all of them) are overly simplistic as if Shore ran out of ideas. My God, there's even a theme which sounds like a shitty version of Debney's main theme from LAIR. Super annoying! I don't like the way he transitions from one theme to another during the course of the score - very abrupt cuts without any sort of smooth transition. Almost seems edited together in post. I don't like the "dead" music, which also plagues the complete recordings of the LOTR's trilogy. There is no need to score every damn second of the movie. John Williams did this with the Star Wars prequels as well. I'm not a fan of the recordings either. Mushy, too much reverb. Gak!

I'll never spin The Hobbit scores ever again.

-Erik-

Even the good parts I find a bit "static" - the orchestral action pieces, for example. They're exciting and have some great rhythmic flair, especially that Goldsmithian "Last Array" cue, but they don't feel like they're going anywhere (a frequent problem with scores from this medium). Same with the "wondrous" cues - they create a nice atmosphere, but there's no real buildup or structure to them, not much in the way of melody. I'd struggle to reach four stars even with a 45-minute playlist of the best stuff from this, I think.

And some of the bad stuff is really bad. Far worse than anything you'd hear on a Hobbit score.

Okay, Erik...I'll play.


That's fair. I don't think the "but he worked so hard" argument is a strong one when debating the merits of music, so I'm sorry I resorted to it even indirectly. But I genuinely believe there's an intellectual density to these scores that is very hard to come by in (m)any of its contemporaries, and I can hear that in every single cue.


I agree, many of the themes themselves are melodically not very inspired. Heck, a lot of the themes from Lord of the Rings aren't all that great in and of themselves either. It's what Shore does with the themes that I find impressive.

Which theme sounds like Lair? I missed that.


This is a legitimate point. More thematic "intermingling" and counterpoint would have been appreciated. Personally, though, I don't find that it bothers me.


Well, these are all issues that the Lord of the Rings scores have, too. I find Shore's music oddly engaging even when it isn't really saying anything, simply because there's a sort of "weight" behind it. I'm not sure what it is. Probably I've just brainwashed myself with these books, films and scores too much.


A shame. Really, it is. Me, I'll enjoy them for years to come!

Also, Erik, I remember you being pretty lukewarm on An Unexpected Journey but I seem to recall you were a lot more enthusiastic about Desolation of Smaug, to the point that you were debating putting it in your top 10 from that year even. What happened there? Did you decide you didn't like it much after all?

Thank you! I am the biggest defender of HFR you will ever meet. I literally watch every single TV and movie I ever see in 60fps upconverted with the fantastic SVP Manager utility, I even spent hundreds of dollars upgrading my family's home theater PC so it will be able to run at 60fps too (please note, this is far better tech than the silly high frame rate LCD TVs you see in stores). I'm sure you are not as obsessive as me about this, Thor, but it's nice to see someone have something to say about the HFR release of The Hobbit that isn't saying how awful and fake it made the film look!