Actions & Consequences

Bingo.



Ralph, with all due respect, but now you're just ranting.

1) Canada isn't a race. Nor is America.
2) People (regulars and passersby alike) many times have refered to Erik as American, and he's always taken great delight in putting the record straight.
3) Calling someone a racist is not my idea of a sense of humour. Nor, I would guess, is it yours.

I honestly don't see what your points have to do with anything here.



Again: I don't care about the context.
It's on the same level as accusing someone of sexual atrocities or molesting children.
I don't see anything wrong on my part for suggesting a moral boundary has been crossed thoroughly, and for taking the action I feel is appropriate.

I'm happy for people to discuss and debate that, and for people to hold and bring forth different view points on the severity and my (over?)reaction, but I consider this in no sense at all "wrong".

It's been interesting to follow this discussion today from the remoteness of a work computer.

Everyone has their own opinions as to whether Sunil should or should not be banned for his comments but Martijn is a moderator of this forum and that has a level of responsibility associated with it. From the few times I have met Martijn I believe that I know that he will have thought this through before making a decision.

Although we can post our own opinions as to whether or not someone who makes such comments (without any attempt at retraction) should or should not be banned I believe that having made the decision we should accept and support this decision.

I've had one or two minor clashes with Erik over the years but (and I'm sure that Erik echoes this) there's always been a level of respect underpinning everything. Everyone has opinions. We may not agree with these opinions but that's no reason to take a vitriolic stance and make personal attacks. Reading the original comments from Sunil, to me, these were vitriolic comments that were really meant. I don't think that we need those types of comments on this board.

*All comments made after having a couple of glasses of Merlot. I'll review them later!

No, Alan, I'm afraid I can't support it. I can ACCEPT it, but not support it.

Everyone agrees that what Sunil said is outrageously offensive. Some just don't think it was cause for immediate banishment without any form of last warning.

I think we have already been clear to Sunil before this last incident, since tis was not the only one.

I come down with Thor and Ralph on this one. The irony is too intense. A somewhat strange Indian man with a short fuse who doesn't have an ear for Canadian sarcasm is called a troll, and probably not being aware of the slang internet English meaning of the word, responds with the call that Erik is a racist. In some places, that sequence of events would be greeted with a sense of humour. But here, where we love our eccentrics (or I thought we did), it's banning time.

Consider for a moment that behavior which we don't think of as racist might be perceived as racist, or be felt to mask racial prejudice. And also that being called a racist isn't quite the unspoken insult on the subcontinent that it is here.

I agree. Sunil words are out of place but banning him for that seems to be a bit extreme. I always thought that Sunil and Nautilus were used has scapegoats around here and felt bad for what they had to endure. that being said, a personal apology is always good manners.

Sunil,
Get that e-mail off to Bregt so he can forward it to Erik. People that I know will respond to me in the following way. Are you going to let him live in your head rent free? Erik and I disagree on things and I've been known to be a bit sensitive from time to time with remarks made but. If the chips were down and I needed help you'd all stand in line waiting to give blood. You get my point.This is no big deal. A new friend from Minneapolis died suddenly yesterday. I'm debating if I should stay here in San Diego or return early to Minneapolis and attend the services. That is a big deal.
Thomas

In all seriousness, I'm no politically correct idiot. One of my first encounters with Sunil was to be labelled a racist by extension due to certain happenings in my country. But I think I know a misunderstanding when I see one, and I feel that's what we have here. But it is your call.

Jesus! I can't believe I missed all the fun! I mean in in the most ironic way possible.
Seriously now. I've learn not to pay much attention to Sunil's overreactions towards things and to understand it in a way. The same way I've learned to take Erik's remarks with a pinch of salt. But anyway I've always felt that this thing we have here is about mutual respect of our diversity from all parts. "Troll" is a bad word but "racist"is an even worse one, a terrible one to my ears. So I will have to agree with Martijn but I will also have to say that it would be good to let somethings fall down, meaning not tease people like Sunil constantly since they don't always understand our (in general) humor.
And on a final note: boys behave or I will have to grab a withsplash!

P.S. Tom my condolances on your friend's passing.

Agreed.

It all comes down to giving and taking a little. Don't be a prick on the one hand, and don't take things too seriously on the other.
There's many people of many different cultural and sociological backgrounds here, and some friction and misunderstandings are inevitable (as we've seen many times).
At the best of times these were addressed in a mature and generally respectful manner, as they should be.


Yes, den mother...

Martijn, you are explaining things too much. LIFE HAS RULES, and they apply to everyone. A policeman doesn't exactly sit down, ask and discuss with everyone around him when he goes to arrest someone. He knows the rules, he has the responsibilities of doing it, he judges and proceeds, end and done.

People, you are talking about this out of the comfort of not being a mod. I know you're laughing for the policeman pun above, but seriously, being a mod, holds great responsibility and we are doing for this place to RUN PROPERLY. The fact that we are even DISCUSSING such things, shows that he was a problem to the board. We had (and still have) loonies in the past but nobody 'cause the slightest problem, rather the contrary. This has gone way out of hand. I am a mod and i know that it takes huge responsibility and not everything you do will be liked by everyone. But i also know that Martijn, out of all of us, is the most thoughtful and mature on these matters and i am very sure he has given it the greatest of responsible thought before proceeding to the action, and for that reason i stand behind him 100%.

Why is that? I think you people are taking this too softly, seriously. NOT LIKING ERIK is one thing, his style, the way he talks or anything, or his attitude, but NAME CALLING, AGGRESSIVE ADJECTIVES and the SO CONVENIENT RACIST LABEL is unacceptable (have you ever thought that most people who think everyone else is racist against them is calling it to themselves actually? Like some "oh maaai gaawd narmean" americans who think 24/7 that everyone is a terrorist watching them and preparing to blow them up. Plus what Erik said has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING RACIST ABOUT IT, IT'S JUST ERIK. WE CAN'T DAMN A MAN FOR HIS CHARACTER CAN WE? SUNIL SIMPLY WENT OVERBOARD AND WE AREN'T JUDGING HIS ATTITUDE, BUT HIS ACTIONS. IF SOMEONE COULD SERIOUSLY FIND SOMETHING "RACIST" IN ERIK'S BEHAVIOUR PLEASE PRESENT THE CLUES AND NOT TALK IN GENERAL TERMS.

As for Erik, DAMN, I even had a lot of disagreements with him in the past to the point of annoyance but HE NEVER INSULTED ME IN ANY WAY HOW MATTER HOW MUCH HE PISSED ME OFF. THIS, HOWEVER IS NOT ABOUT ME OR ANYONE NOT EXACTLY LIKING ERIK. IT'S NOT AT ALL ABOUT THAT. This is not us vs Erik, it's about LOGICAL ISSUES having to do with mature, civilized people interacting with other people in a healthy world. What SUNIL hinted in his behaviour in the past not only isn't healthy, but his today's actions are actually SICK.

IT'S NOT ALWAYS PLEASANT WHEN THINGS NEED TO BE TAKEN UNDER CONTROL BUT THAT'S THE WAY EVERY CIVILIZED SOCIETY WORKS. Now if you have any VALID arguments and not IDIOTIC ANGRY COMMENTS ON PERSONALS THAT DON'T CONCERN ANYONE ELSE BESIDE YOU, please forward them or let it go 'cause whether you like Erik or not, he's CONTRIBUTED SO MUCH MORE (and he still does) to both film music and our forum whilst SUNIL has contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and has only caused serious trouble, with the apex being the today's actions.

If you want to proceed with this one, drop the personal vendettas against ERIK and convince us WHY is SUNIL, AND ALL THIS IN ANY WAY IMPORTANT to our family here. Name ONE important factor that he has ever contributed. We are all busy with our families and works and i am sorry but all this blah-blah has been taken to hugely expensive (time and work-wise) levels for us all, and why this is? 'CAUSE YOU ARE TOO GETTING PERSONAL WITH THIS, LIKE SUNIL DID. FORGET YOURSELF. PRESENT LOGICAL ARGUEMENTS.

And just to clarify, i seriously thought of banning him to and i'd do it if i didn't have to leave for work, from which i just returned. If i had the time to consult Bregt and the other mods first, i'd do it very happily.

He has united us against a common foe.

Think again!!!