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Avatar - James Horner

I always seem to like Horner scores more than anyone else does (these days, anyway) and this is no exception. Have only listened to it twice but it's my clear favourite 2009 score album already. I hear all the past Horner scores of course, though I don't hear the other things people have said it sounds like. I love the use of voices and electronics, both done in creative ways. Of course, anyone who doesn't like James Horner's post-Titanic sound won't like it, but for me it's his strongest album since The New World and I'm delighted to hear a more muscular extension of that one.

Zimmer... and Dodd.

NP: Avatar (Horner)

I like it myself.

I've noticed some similarities between Horner and Zimmer going all the way back to the mid 90s. Take the opening cue of Balto, for example. The use of strings as a rhythmic base is done in a way that I've always thought of as being Zimmer-ish.

I've yet to hear Avatar, besides that one clip, but if you say it's in any way related to The New World, I am bound to love it. That is truly one of my favorite scores (albums!) of all time.

One of the motifs from The New World is retained intact in this score. It also appeared in Apocalypto. I think it is a (simple, in a canon form) Horner's new staple, some kind of "nature motif"

I did, track three I think has this descending canon-like string motif, this time with electroncis and a solo violin (making it sound more like Vaughan Williams).

I usually listen to last two tracks of the score (ignoring the song). I ignore the song too when I listen to the whole thing. I shall tell you my opinions and theory (alas I can't prove the Vangelis influences, I couldn't compare) tomorrow.

Oh, and my theory of Zimmer's scoring method will be there too. It may be controversial and I guess it will be lol

Are my ears clogged? I noticed no synth choir or synth female vocals. They're real, are they not?

The CD credits Luca Franglen as a boy soprano and Carmen Twillie, Clydene Jackson, Terry Wood, Karen Hogle Brown, Radka Varimezova and Lisbeth Scott with solo vocals, and the members of a choir.

You might be right. It is not uncommon for me to fail to notice things like that.

Run, James. Run and hide.

I bought 2 scores in Christmas of 1997: Titanic and Peacemaker.

I will have 2 new scores in christmas of 2009: Avatar and Sherlock Holmes.

NP:Titanic (Horner).

In his time I enjoyed more this score than peacemaker ( ).I enjoyed Horner's with his Apollo XIII new age music a lot. And even Celine Dion's song

Now, I think the blend of electronics and orchestra is far, far worst than his masterpiece for Apollo XIII, and they are really annoying. The action stuff is still cool, because it's pretty agressive specially my favourite cue : "Hard to Starboard"

....and Peacemaker rules!

James Horner - Avatar

Horner's year labor is a good work, though not what I expected for many reasons. First, I expected something more original. Not only own Horner's references, but also Nicholas Dodd inspirations, add some Hans Zimmer and you've got a new cool score.

I was thinking why the Zimmer references and, as Demetris said, why the Vangelis references too. It leads to a question (sorry, an essay here). Why the only composers that Ridley Scott relatively "left alone" are Vangelis and Zimmer (also Streitenfeld, but this is a composer "brought up" by Scott anyway, he knew what Ridley likes from day one and that's what he gives)?

Southall comes with an immediate answer - Ridley Scott knows shit about music. This is true, if we try to make him a William Wyler or Anthony Mann (while the quintessential Roman music is of course Rozsa's Ben Hur, we must remember that Ridley sees Gladiator as kind of his version of "The Fall of Roman Empire"), but not if we see Ridley Scott as who he is and what he aims for. Scott is a kind of a visionary, for whom the most important thing in a movie (visually, sound-wise too) is creating a world. I call him the master of the first shot, because his first shots immense us to the way the story is told, to a new world. This is achieved through specific visual ideas (anybody who saw Hannibal's or BHD's booklets and saw any of his documentaries knows that he draws the shit out of his projects) and specific approach to music. Music adds to the creational (not creationist, Steven ) aspect of the movies - they create a soundscape to help building the landscape's atmosphere. The "hand" shot in Gladiator, the "cityscape" in Blade Runner, the Nostromo shot and the next 2001-inspired shots of the Nostromo's interiors - it's all very memorable (also American Gangster's first scene, Black Hawk Down's documentary-like montage).

How does it influence Ridley's musical choices? Let's look at Vangelis's and Zimmer's approaches. Vangelis just plays off the movie, he also plays every part himself. Zimmer? Zimmer thinks of everything in form of a big ensemble - orchestra is an instrument, yes. They care more about the general sound and are able to find the right sounds for a visionary director (yes, Scott is a visionary, Alien and Blade Runner show that) like Ridley Scott. Goldsmith had that, but, in case of Legend, his score was rejected by the producer. So it wasn't HIS fault, I know Ridley regrets the rejection and the director's cut retains the original score.

Now, Horner is not that kind of sound visionary. His Ph. D. in music and general personality make him very symphonic in sound. That's not bad, of course - Horner remains the only mainstream "oldschool" composer which is regularly at work today (Elfman is quirky, Williams is semi-retired and went a bit more avant-garde, though rather a bit more Stravinsky). His symphonic structure is so intricate (listen to Enemy at the Gates's first track to hear it at best in this decade) that he can't quit certain symphonic ideas to fit the director (hence his "I know better than Cameron" attitude in interviews) and gives his instinct in full (Horner's film instincts are at their best in Apollo 13, look how the music fits the editing of the picture, just the editing, this makes that one a masterpiece as film music and the fact that he decided for intelligently restricted orchestrations in that one). He goes totally into it, not noticing that sometimes he's overly saccharine - that's jsut the way it is. He does spoil movies through that, a prime example being the end of A Beautiful Mind or Bicentennial Man in general.

Avatar needed a creational score. The whole movie is about creating a new world, visually not like any world before. Horner doesn't have that creational instinct like Zimmer or Vangelis does, so, I think, at a certain point, his abilities went to a halt. He knew that he would have to restrain his orchestrational technique and aim for something more, hmm, arrangement-wise versatile. It's not another Willow (Willow doesn't transfer into another world, but it's hell of a good score), but it's not Alien or Blade Runner either. He had to find a reference point. Along came a Zimmer. I think this is why this score is so Zimmerish, even in the relation between orchestra and synthesizers. That's my theory.

I like your write up but that might be giving Horner too much credit, IMHO. My theory is that the temp score contained a bunch of Zimmer and Vangelis cues and and Horner copied it since he doesn't have anything similar in his repertoire to plagiarize from.

tl:dr

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